BP This Week: Charlottesville and ‘Whataboutism’

After last week’s “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia ended in the death of a counter-protester, Americans have been engaged in a fierce debate over racism, violence, the “alt-right” movement, and President Trump’s response. Ed Stetzer and Warren Cole Smith talk about why it’s important to condemn the white supremacists in Charlottesville before shifting the discussion to violence on the radical left.

Our hosts also wrestle with the ongoing threat of radical Islam in light of this week’s attack in Barcelona.

Finally, Dr. Jay Richards of the Discovery Institute shares some insights about the upcoming total solar eclipse and what it tells us about our privileged place in the universe.

Ku Klux Klan. Photo by Martin via Flickr creative commons

Resources

Race, Gospel, and the Moment
  • Timothy Keller
  • The Gospel Coalition
  • August 15, 2017

Comment Policy: Commenters are welcome to argue all points of view, but they are asked to do it civilly and respectfully. Comments that call names, insult other people or groups, use profanity or obscenity, repeat the same points over and over, or make personal remarks about other commenters will be deleted. After multiple infractions, commenters may be banned.

  • Jim Lee Jr.

    There is no such word as supremacism, it is supremacy.

  • The Bechtloff

    There are very few white supremacists out there, even at that rally there were very few. There were several white nationalists, but that’s not the same thing and it’s intellectually dishonest and/or ignorant to claim wanting a homeland is the same thing as wanting supremacy over other races. And while I’m not a white nationalist myself, I can’t help but notice the hypocrisy of the mainstream right who vehemently defend the Jewish enthnostate of Israel but think white nationalism cannot be discussed in polite company except to be condemned. Why exactly do Jews deserve a homeland but whites do not?

    • jason taylor

      Whites have several ethnostates. They are called Europe. Europeans have become skeptical of the idea because they blamed it for people who took the idea to ridiculous lengths but frankly, that is not my fault. Right here whites have the same homeland as Jews, Blacks, Asians, Indians, Hispanics, this, thatses, the others, and Purple People with Pink Polka Dots. It is called America. America is a Citizen’s Supremacist state; that is what it was made for and flaws in that were flaws that needed correction. Just like there is no hypocrisy in me saying that British should have a monarchy and America not because monarchy suits Britain. Or that Vatican City should have a Theocracy and America not. Because America is different.

      If you truly approve of nationalism it should be because people and places are different and should be allowed to be different. For the record the Jewish “ethnostate” was not built on the premise of having Arab serfs and the fact that Arabs have a social stigma in Israel is a historical accident and one that Israelis are not proud of. The word “Supremacist” happens to imply jackbooting everyone else which is a good reason to disapprove of it alone. I have no desire for a state where I have some sort of enforced supremacy that comes at someone else’s expense nor do I get kicks from beating others down. I did not say you did but the word Supremacy implies it. For the further record I have no ideological objection to you having a white commune or a white fraternity and think it hypocrisy to allow black ones and not white ones. Calling it “white” is in fact in poor taste, because it just is. And there are so many reasonable hyphenizations to have that there is no particular call to go with that. I have for the record attended several Highland Games which are a celebration of Scottish nationalism, and one Renaissance Faire which is a celebration of English Nationalism. As it happens both Scots and English are white. And neither celebration was about people being angry at each other because of who their second cousin twice removed was.

      • The Bechtloff

        “Whites have several ethnostates. They are called Europe” That is wrong. They are currently being flooded with third world Muslims and will not exist as white countries in a couple of decades. That is what is causing people to turn to white nationalism, there are no white countries left. Not really.

        • Gina Dalfonzo

          White is a color. Islam is a religion. You’re conflating the two.

          • The Bechtloff

            I meant to type out “non white third world Muslims”. Both points are important. The “migrants” (more like invaders) flooding into France (just to name one of the nations) are not French in any meaningful sense of the world, not ethnically, not culturally, and they never will be. What will happen is France will cease to exist in all but name only. And this is currently happening to almost every white nation except for Russia and some Eastern European nations. And you notice this is only being pushed onto white nations by and large, not that many people are pushing Japan to become “diverse”. Combine that with a clear anti-white bias from so much of the establishment (politicians quick to condemn white nationalist groups, but too afraid to condemn Black Lives Matter despite a far, far more violent track record) and so much of the media (how many articles has Salon published on how the world will be a better place when white people are extinct, I’ve lost count) and is it any wonder white nationalism is growing? Is it any wonder there is such anger?

          • Gina Dalfonzo

            Only if being white is inherently superior to not being white.

            And if you’re preparing to make that argument, you’re asking for a suspension at the very least, so watch what you say.

          • The Bechtloff

            A few things Gina:

            A) The site policy specifically states above the comments “Commenters are welcome to argue all points of view” and your comment seems to indicate that the site’s policy is a lie. Or perhaps that you are choosing to ignore the site’s policy simply because my position and not my tone upsets you (although honestly I feel like you’re putting words into my mouth and getting upset over what you think is my position, not what it is). I’m breaking no rules here Gina, I expect the left to scream “racist” to shut people up, but I think you’re better than that.

            B) Regardless, I am not arguing “supremacy” as that implies a moral judgement over biological differences between different people. What I am arguing, what is indeed biological fact, is that different people are different. And there is more than significant scientific evidence that those difference include intelligence and temperament too. There is a lot of evidence that East Asians for example are on average considerably more intelligent than whites. That doesn’t mean I think they’re superior to me, simply that there is, on average, a biological difference between us in that area. But there is nothing anymore “superior” about a someone being more intelligent than me, than say, someone being taller than me.

            C) Man is not meant to live in one homogenized society or as one homogenized race. The story of the Tower of Babel should have taught us that. All peoples should be able to take pride in their racial heritage without being called evil (although it seems only one race gets called evil these days for doing so), and all nations should be allowed to preserve their people and culture. I rather enjoy a world full of distinct peoples and distinct cultures. I find it beautiful actually. Because THAT is real diversity.

          • Gina Dalfonzo

            1. As the person who wrote and enforces the site policy, Mr. Bechtloff, I’m quite familiar with what it says. One of the things it says is that commenters are not to “insult other people or groups.” I have seen far too many justifications of “white anger” that are nothing more than a cover for the bashing and insulting of non-whites, and I’m giving you fair warning that we are not going to have that here.
            2. Celebrating distinct cultures is one thing; paranoia about the supposedly threatened white race is quite another. For instance, if you think it’s impossible for immigrants to become culturally French, you might want to do a little research on the history of France and the ethnic origins of some of its most notable figures.

          • Scott

            “The story of the Tower of Babel should have taught us that. All peoples should be able to take pride in their racial heritage without being called evil (although it seems only one race gets called evil these days for doing so), and all nations should be allowed to preserve their people and culture. I rather enjoy a world full of distinct peoples and distinct cultures. I find it beautiful actually. Because THAT is real diversity.”

            This is not so bad. So long as equality (without tones of superiority) is honored…

            Jesus says we (as individuals) are equal in God’s eyes. He also says to go out to all nations and make disciples (one kingdom united under God), so God does not like us to put anything before Him. He does give us free will though, and asks that we leave judgement up to Him. This is why I believe Christians should advocate for a plural society, one that allows freedom to be different and live differently based our core convictions.

    • jason taylor

      And for the record it is not white nationalism because it is not nationalism. It does not have or apparently aspire to having an organized state answerable to law and custom except for the United States-which belongs to all of us. Nor does it have any territory it wishes to occupy. Nor is there anyone white nationalists are prepared to have negotiate in their name.

  • Gina Dalfonzo

    Define “nations which are theirs.”

    • Scott

      I can see being proud of (or rather paying respect to) ones own cultural/ethnic heritage… I think we should also point out and learn from our own mistakes.

      Aren’t all humans part of one race… the human race? Why do we wish to separate/categorize ourselves by the color of our skin?

  • Gina Dalfonzo

    Let me get this straight: You’re defending yourself against the charge of white supremacy by quoting (apparently approvingly) a Nazi slogan.

    Do you ever think these things through?

  • Gina Dalfonzo

    This is not about me. I told you before, racism is not acceptable here, and as the site moderator I have the right to enforce that rule. If you’re going to come here and spout Nazi slogans (and spare me the “2 plus 2” garbage, you know very well it was adopted as a Nazi slogan and is still associated with them) and otherwise argue for white nationalism and/or white supremacy, you’re out. If you’re going to spend your days arguing with me about what you want the rules to be, you’re also out. I have neither the time nor the energy nor the inclination to deal with that all day long. If, on the other hand, you can restrain yourself and act like a decent human being, you may stay. Take your pick.

    • The Bechtloff

      I have not argued for white supremacy, I have simply argued that different peoples are different and it is not unreasonable for different people groups to want a homeland. I would ask once more Gina, if you could refrain from calling me a Nazi for a moment and address a point, do you support the Jewish enthnostate of Israel and if so how can you if the idea of an ethnostate is so abhorrent to you?

      • Gina Dalfonzo

        1. Once again, this is not about me. 2. I did not call you a Nazi. I asked you to refrain from parroting Nazi propaganda. 3. Israel has nothing to do with anything. Please stay on topic.

        • The Bechtloff

          The topic is whether ethnonationalism is a legitimate position for someone to take, you seem to be saying it is not, so my asking if you support an existing ethnonationalist state and why is exactly on topic.

          • Gina Dalfonzo

            For the last time, this is not about me. This is about you and whether you are here to spew white nationalist propaganda or to contribute to a constructive and civilized discussion. Make up your mind.

          • The Bechtloff

            So you are saying ethnonationalism (not white nationalism, I argued ALL races are justified in desiring a homeland) is unspeakable on this site? If that is the case then I ask a simple question, do you support the ethnostate of Israel, and if so why do Jewish people deserve a homeland and whites do not?

          • Gina Dalfonzo

            Is “a white homeland” the kind of country that would keep all other races out? Israel doesn’t do that. Or is “a white homeland” the kind of country built on white culture? Because there isn’t just one “white culture,” there is a mix of cultures from various origins — and as you doubtless know, many white cultural achievements have their roots in black or Jewish or Hispanic or Asian culture. You see the problems with your argument?

          • The Bechtloff

            Also Gina, you have continuously miss-characterized my argument that “different races are different” as “white supremacy”. I assume you would agree with the statement “men and women are different”, does that make you a “male supremacist”? Of course not. Two things being different does not make one superior to the other, you see what I’m saying here?

  • Gina Dalfonzo

    I have some recommended reading for you. Pardon the NSFW language. I think the argument is important enough to post here regardless of the language.

    http://www.shemazing.net/trendingtwitter-celebrates-explanation-for-black-pride-and-white-pride/

  • Gina Dalfonzo

    We’re generally mutts, that’s true. In fact, quite a number of whites have some black ancestry (as this story rather amusingly demonstrated: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/white-supremacists-respond-genetics-say-theyre-not-white/ ). So I’m not sure how your white homeland would work, anyway. Would people have to be genetically tested in order to have full rights and privileges there?

    • The Bechtloff

      Gina, I really don’t know how it would work, and honestly I don’t think it would work at all in North America. Some of your objections have been the very things I have asked white nationalists before and I honestly wasn’t all that satisfied with their answers. I’m not really advocating for a white homeland, so much as I’m merely arguing it is something that should not be unspeakable, something that is not inherently unreasonable or evil to desire. And besides, it’s not like there aren’t plenty of examples of enthnostates throughout history and even in the modern world you could use as examples if you were establishing one.

      What I do advocate is that white people have a right to be proud of their ethnic heritage and wish to see it continue. If you were to go onto Wikipedia right now and look up Black Pride, it would talk about black people being proud of their heritage, same with every other race, except if you look up white pride, you get an article about how evil it is. There is a dating site right now exclusively for blacks called blackpeoplemeetDOTcom, when a similar site for whites went up it was met with outrage and eventually had it’s domain yanked. Because if blacks only wish to date blacks that’s just their preference, if whites only wish to date whites that’s somehow hateful. Those are just a small examples of an overall cultural trend of attempting to deracinate whites in the West. If the continued demonization of white people continue I can tell you White Nationalism is only going to continue to gain steam.

      • Gina Dalfonzo

        Evil will always find a way to gain steam. Doesn’t mean we need to go along with it or be a part of it or look for ways to justify it.

  • Gina Dalfonzo

    “Rather emotional.” Nothing like throwing in a little misogyny with your bigotry, hmm? 😀

  • Gina Dalfonzo

    On the contrary, Gladys, I fear the times are all too conducive to the kind of white paranoia that too many are interested in spreading.