Well Limbaugh's generation had more chance, seeing as they came from interesting times. Great men unfortunately, often do live in interesting times.

seem to be so opposite anymore. In a past generation, like the one Brokaw called the greetest, people did great things and only a few became famous. Lindbergh became famous for doing a great thing. But my fomer bosses father who landed on Normandy and fought the Battle of the Bulge is not famous ( except to me and my boss ).

These days Paris Hilton is famous. So is Lindsey Lohan. But have they done anything great. Hardly. I know this has been discussed else where to death, but I think that today fame and greatness are not linked, much.... anymore.


Make me one with everything.... LOL huge. That is over the top.

.
This joke (slightly adapted) might be so old it’s new again –

Q: What did Tiger “Zen” Woods say to the hot dog vendor?

A: “Make me one with everything.”

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Now… where was I? Oh yeah.

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( 0 )

ZZZZZ . . .ZAWP . . . SKNXXX!

"I think Buddha had a rather different sort of achievement in mind."

Um, (cough), Jason, old chum - if Tiger were truly interested in renouncing all worldly attachments and seeking to extinguish the self to achieve enlightenment, as Buddhism teaches, would we even be having this discussion?

But the drive toward material success and the drive toward spiritual success are quite similar in that the driven individual sacrifices a great deal - including, alas, "loved" ones.

So while you're correct that enlightenment is quite different from achieving the pinnacle of success in a sport (and all that comes with that success), from my perspective I see them as quite similar.

And since who knows but what Rolley isn't reading this, I'll include a joke:
The student asked the master "Does an eagle have the Buddha-nature?"
And the master replied "Fore!"

"But Tiger wins and fans don't care."

Well, I say, if Solomon wrote the Proverbs today, this would be in it:
"Our lives of anonymity have their blessings".

I've been thinking that more and more. One problem though is we live in a world where 'greatness' is perceived as 'accolade' or 'recognition'. This results in most of us making the illogical step of fame = greatness. (And worse, visual technologies allow us to perceive greatness in apparent effortlessness (ignoring the endless practice it took), and so, easy fame/greatness is achievable by all - the democratization of greatness. thus we waste far too much time dreaming about greatness and never actually pursuing it [however we wrongly or rightly define greatness]).

Anyway, tonight I'll relax in perfect contentment with my unfamous self and unfamous wife.

I am glad to hear someone else found him petulant. I was feeling lonely until his life exploded. ( I am trying to step up to the plate on being a commetor, at least from the third row behind the Inklings and then row with you and LeeQuod and Jason and Ben ).

I do not lay all of Tigers petulance on him. I think it was fed. He was and still likely is a great player but the media hyperbole began to spin a spiral that Tiger got caught in. Seems to relate to that incident where one wiley serpent insinuated, has God really said? I think that Tiger got caught up in a "Am I really the greatest golfer ever!" moment and it led to a fall. After all an athlete is alwways one play, or stroke ( or controversy ) away from the end of his career.

I seems to me that the greats like Walter Hagen, Gene Sarazen, Bobby Jones, Nicklaus and Palmer had pretty substantial careers under their belt before "great" was assigned to them. A youngster like Tiger getting those accollades would be easily tempted to think "Has the media really said?".

Aren't we all subject to it? Our lives of anonymity have their blessings.

and thus a Phil Mickelson fan, I think it's pretty fair to say that Tiger's fan base was b/c of his skill, and the fact that he's handsom.

Phil's been a gentleman for years. He's a family man, sticks by his wife when she's sick. Treats the media well. But the response toward him: "Lefty chokes!"

Meanwhile,
Tiger on steroids? Rumor abounds for years, high probability "yes". But Tiger wins and fans don't care.

Tiger is known to follow his father, he's a foul-mouthed perfectionist. Critical of everything and everyone (including himself). But Tiger wins and fans don't care.

As for the world of golf revolving around him...it does. Golf ratings and interest soared when Tiger was playing/winning. Yeah the golf news media focused on Tiger...it made sense. That's where the consumer's interest was.

Will Tiger get his mojo back? Strong probability. He's as strong willed as they come, and he's talented. Jordan made a comeback. T Boone Pickens made a comeback. I suspect Tiger will too.

I think Buddha had a rather different sort of achievement in mind.

(If Roberto were available, we could ask him; if *anyone* would know, ...)

It's interesting that Siddhartha Gautama abandoned his wife and child to pursue achievement. (Imagine naming your son "Ball-and-chain"; Buddha did.)

And that the wife was a princess (and therefore quite wealthy) even after his departure. In fact, she and their son would have retained the bulk of the wealth.

So maybe Tiger is following Buddha a bit too closely.

(i.e. I'm a terrible golfer too. Plus, good to have another regular commenter around, Thanks Terrell for all your recent input.)

But also, 'petulant' is a good word to describe how I perceived Tiger. There are two unbelievable things about it:
a) He appeared to think the world did and should revolve around him.
b) Most of the time, at least in golf, it seemed to.

I think it is lost for as long as Tiger is lost. For a long time I think Tiger was really good and didn't believe the press. Then everyone piled on with the Greatest Golfer Ever, after two or three great years. Then the petulance set in. I quit following Tiger because I couldn't stomach the "Get in the hole!" shouts on the tee box of 600 yard holes. Excuse me? I think Tiger might have started to believe that too.

I am a really really bad golfer. I told my wife that he had lost it because that demon will always be in the back of his mind, behind the drawers in the chest. It will make the drawers hang up and come out crooked. Tour golf is an incredibly mental game, ala some of the recent collapses, and no amount of compartmentalization can overcome some issues, issues that affect the deepest fiber of our being.

I think the mojo is lost and may be very dificult to get back. I sort of hope it doesn't come back especially if Tiger decides Buddha wasn't so wise after all. The media hype over a converted returned champion would be terrible, unless somehow we got another Eric Liddle in the deal.

You thought of him that way Steve? Mmm maybe I didn't keep up, but the descriptions I got up til recently didn't seem like that.

Jason,
I'm going to have to disagree with you on Tiger's popularity. For one, gentleman is a nebulous word. But more importantly, I was just having this conversation yesterday with a friend who is an excellent golfer. He mentioned his general feeling is sadness... not because "Tiger is a scumbag" (my golfer friend is not a Christian), but because he played unbelievable, amazing golf and that is now gone. We talked about how the networks have to remember how to broadcast golf without Tiger being in one of the last groups. For what it's worth, I thought of Woods as a spoiled, temperamental athlete who I wouldn't want my kids to mimic (and, that's just his sportsmanship playing golf). He has a great smile though (when he's winning).

Uh, Gina, with all due respect to your dad (who deserves enormous respect) you can *recover* from a *slump*. You can never recover from *sin*; you have to die - unless someone dies in your place.

Brit Hume was right: Buddha isn't helping Tiger all that much.

Tiger's popularity wasn't because he was skillful, it was because he was perceived as a gentleman. Now that that is gone he is just another celebrity. Doesn't it say something about a good name being more valueable then great riches?